Podcasts
Episode 32: HERO SERIES - Featuring Michael St. John - PART 3
The story of the deadly El Capitan rescue continues as Michael St. John describes the dangers his teams faced as they tried to get frozen climbers off a rock face wall thousands of feet in the air. Tragically, not everyone would make it out alive.
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Episode 31: HERO SERIES - Featuring Michael St. John - PART 2
Mountain search and rescue is mentally and physically exhausting. But someone has to do it. In this episode Michael St. John talks about getting the call to attempt a search and rescue on El Capitan at Yosemite national Park and the approach his team took to accomplishing the mission.
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Episode 30: HERO SERIES - Featuring Michael St. John - PART 1
Michael St. John reached the rank of fire battalion chief with Mill Valley Fire in Mill Valley California and is currently the unit leader of Marin County Search and Rescue. In this episode we meet him and get the backstory of how he became one of the leading experts in the field of search and rescue.
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Episode 29: Tactical Gear & Procedures, Ft. Officer Heath Layman (Part 4)
In his final episode officer Layman describes his family’s long-commitment to law enforcement and how he used his Father’s Maglite when he first began his career. The same Maglite his dad had used on the force for decades.
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Episode 28: Tactical Gear & Procedures, Ft. Officer Heath Layman (Part 3)
The discussion continues with officer Heath Layman and he details his recent experiences working with two different Maglite flashlights. The Mag-Tac Rechargeable and Mag-Tac battery-operated both get his scrutiny and he explains why he likes them booth for different reasons. Transcript: Welcome to the MAGTAC Podcast, with your host, Lou Desmond. Let's join Lou and business owner/police officer Heath Layman as they discuss the latest in tactical gear and procedures. Lou Desmond: Bullets flying and gunshots going off will make people do strange things. Heath Layman: It does. Under stress, we do some very bizarre things. But we've got to try to train our guys to respond in ways that are automatic to them, that they would do things in a manner that's automatic to their training. When I first became a firearms instructor, close to 20 years ago, one of the firearms training things we did is under stress. I had an old ticket book in one hand. And they had to go up, and then they responded to a threat and they ended up shooting. And 100% of the guys that I ran through the course had that ticket book still in their hand and did all their shooting with one hand. So, I got to find ways to incorporate that into training, and find out what we're really going to do under stress. It'd be interesting to see what guys like Force Science Research Center would have to say about things like that. Lou Desmond: So, Officer Layman, you recently had the opportunity to review a couple of different Maglite Mag-Tactical lights. What was that experience like? Heath Layman: I enjoyed both of them. I found myself liking the rechargeable one more than I thought. I've been using disposable - the lithium style - batteries in a old school Streamlight that I've had for a really long time. It can get very expensive, but I just hadn't had much faith in the rechargeable batteries. So, I was probably a little predisposed to thinking that I was going to like the disposable battery version better, and I ended up actually loving the rechargeable one. Heath Layman: I was very surprised with how long the charge lasted. It was convenient to just pop it on the little base charger. I didn't have to take anything off of it, anyway. I just dropped it down in. I have a little gun room at my house. I call it a gunnery. My wife jokingly calls it my pleasure room. It's where I have my gun safes and my uniforms and my radio and all that stuff. But I could just come at the end of a shift and easily drop it in there, but I actually only charged it twice now because the batteries lasted a long time. The other night ... I've been on day shift with a couple of night shifts mixed in, but it's lasted. Been pretty amazing, the runtime on it. Lou Desmond: Suffice to say, you were surprised at the level of performance of this little light that you didn't think would perform the way it did. Heath Layman: Correct. Heath Layman: I also found myself really loving the bezel design. My personally owned - that I've purchased a long time ago - light, that I've run a long time, the bezel flares out. I'm not a light manufacturer, so I don't know the details and things, but I'm assuming it's done to get a bigger bulb or more of a mirror. I don't know. But the straight bezel in line with the narrow body I loved, because I could actually toss it in my front support-side pocket for concealed carry and carry that flashlight with that clip on, and it didn't drop down in my pocket and turn sideways. Yet, I had this powerful light right there that if I needed to draw my pistol and have a flashlight out - concealed carry, plain clothes type of situations - boom, I had a flashlight out. It was easily drawn out and in my hand in the way that I hold the flashlight already, with my thumb on the tail cap. And it wasn't uncomfortable in the pocket like a flared bezel would be, so I loved that about it as well. Lou Desmond: So, overall, the performance of those two Maglite Tactical lights you were very pleased with? Heath Layman: Oh, absolutely. You could tell it was quality. You could tell that there was some craftsmanship into it. It wasn't some cheap Chinese light that I bought off the internet that got shipped to me. No, it was quality. And I could tell that the components were quality. You press a switch on a light and that's one of the first indications of, "This is a hunk of crap" or, "Hey, this is a really quality light." When you press that thumb switch and it's a textile feeling, I don't know. You can tell quality, I guess. Lou Desmond: Yeah, definitely. And Tony Maglica, the owner of Maglite, the founder of Maglite, would be very glad to hear you say that because he really is a gentleman who sweats the details, and he knows how vital these tools are to the law enforcement officers who use them. Literally, the difference between life and death sometimes, if that light works or not. And Maglites have played a role in saving a number of police officers' lives over the years, very directly. One of our favorite stories is a San Bernardino sheriff whose Maglite actually caught an AK-47 round and stopped it from hitting him. That Maglite is actually in the National Law Enforcement Officers Museum in Washington, DC, on permanent display. And so, Maglites have all kinds of great purposes for law enforcement officers. Lou Desmond: Officer Heath Layman, you and I have talked about Maglite's history with law enforcement. And you had been on a forum with 60-something-thousand other police officers. Talk to me about what the history of Maglite and legacy of Maglite is for the law enforcement community, and how they feel about Maglite. Producer: Want to learn more about how officers may use tactical equipment in the field? Join us for the next episode of the MAGTAC Podcast, with Lou Desmond and officer Heath Layman.
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Episode 27: Tactical Gear & Procedures, Ft. Officer Heath Layman (Part 2)
As officer Layman explains in his second episode policing is sometimes the difference between night and day ... “chases, foot pursuits, vehicle pursuits, doing containment for other major crimes that have occurred and we're setting up and trying to catch bad guys and waiting for a K-9 to show up. Those are more of your night shift types of calls. Night shift is a ton of fun. Small-town policing, night shift is usually boredom, boredom, boredom, chaos, then hours of paperwork and back to boredom, or chaos stacked on top of chaos and we can't keep up. It's usually all or nothing.” Transcript: Welcome to the MAGTAC podcast with your host, Lou Desmond. Let's join Lou and business owner/police officer Heath Layman as they discuss the latest in tactical gear and procedures. Lou Desmond: I want to get into the difference between nighttime and daytime work. Officer Heath Layman: All right. Nighttime calls for service are usually what most cops would consider the more fun calls for service. It's usually things that are in progress: fight calls, domestic violence calls, burglary calls- Lou Desmond: Chases. Officer Heath Layman: ... chases, foot pursuits, vehicle pursuits, doing containment for other major crimes that have occurred and we're setting up and trying to catch bad guys and waiting for a K-9 to show up. Those are more of your night shift types of calls. Night shift is a ton of fun. Small-town policing, night shift is usually boredom, boredom, boredom, chaos, then hours of paperwork and back to boredom, or chaos stacked on top of chaos and we can't keep up. It's usually all or nothing. Officer Heath Layman: But day shift, a lot more of the service-oriented calls for service: serving civil papers, cold burglaries, cleaning up what was missed by night shift type of calls for service. Lou Desmond: At night are the perpetrators bolder because they have the cover of darkness? They think they can run more than they would during the day, more pursuits? Officer Heath Layman: Absolutely. There's definitely more, I think, foot chases using darkness to conceal themselves, and bad things get done in the dark. That doesn't mean things doesn't happen in the daytime as well, but definitely more predominant. 9:00 PM to 3:00 AM is when I think even statistically that's- Lou Desmond: Prime time. Officer Heath Layman: Absolutely. Lou Desmond: Prime-time crime time. Would you say at night, for police officers, there's definitely a heightened sense of physical danger? Officer Heath Layman: Oh, yeah. Technically speaking, you should feel that heightened sense all the time, but reality and experience says yeah, nighttime you're much more likely to get into that type of stuff in the hours of darkness than you are in the daylight. Some of the most exciting and adrenaline aspect parts of the job have been in low light, that's for sure. Lou Desmond: So, when you are in a darkness situation, a low light situation, a quality light source obviously is key. Right? Officer Heath Layman: Oh, absolutely. Yes, a light that you can rely on. You don't want to be halfway through something and have a battery die or drop and the bulb's going to be out on you in the middle of it all. My dad was a retired police officer, and something he always preached to me was one is none, two is one. So, if you need a flashlight, you need two flashlights, and if two flashlights is good, you probably should have three. Lou Desmond: Talk to me about gun-mounted versus handheld and when you use each. Officer Heath Layman: I use a weapon-mounted light, and I'm a big believer in having weapon-mounted lights. You can't point your firearm at something unless you're willing to destroy it, so if you're relying on your weapon-mounted light as your primary illumination device, you're setting yourself up for failure, and you're violating one of the four firearm safety rules about pointing your firearm at something you're not willing to destroy. Officer Heath Layman: And if you think you're going to be able to take the light on and off under stress of a gunfight, you're fooling yourself. And if you think that you're going to be able to cast enough light by just shining it down towards the ground and cast light out towards what you got, you haven't done enough training in different type of environmental conditions to realize that that's not going to solve your problems. Lou Desmond: Suffice to say you need both. Officer Heath Layman: Yes. Lou Desmond: And you wouldn't want to use your weapon-mounted light to do an iris test of a drug suspect. Officer Heath Layman: No, you definitely wouldn't want to do that for an iris test. You wouldn't want to do it for pretty much anything other than once you have a threat identified. Officer Heath Layman: During firearms training, we place a big emphasis on our low-light training of the transitioning of primary ... your light is out and on and it becomes a threat, in transitioning yourself to the weapon-mounted light, and doing it in such a manner you're not delaying yourself or having to think about it. So, that unconscious competency type of level, you just transition to another light. Takes a long time to get guys to that point if all they're relying on is the quarterly firearms training to get to that point, but the guys that take those skills and practice it, you can tell it works, and it works well. Officer Heath Layman: To go to that support-hand flashlight, you either stow it or hold it in such a manner that they can hold their firearm and their light at the same time, but then use the light mounted to the firearm to do their eliminating. I think that's the ideal way to do it. Lou Desmond: Obviously, like I've heard from many law enforcement professionals, trainers, military folks, there's a place for both. The handheld and the weapon-mounted, they have two very different purposes, but oftentimes have to make them work in concert together. Officer Heath Layman: Absolutely. Your duty pistol, I'd love for the guys to get both hands on the gun when they're shooting, but sometimes there's not time for that. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but I've looked at them before. Statistically speaking, you're shooting one-handed at close quarters, and whatever was in that support hand at the time that you started engaging somebody is going to stay in that hand. Officer Heath Layman: There's even some demonstration videos of a pop can in a guy's hand, or a soda can, whatever side of the country you're in that you want to call it, but having something in your hand like that, and instead of dropping it and just putting both hands on the gun, they get done with a stressful shooting and they're still holding onto that item that was already in their hand. Lou Desmond: Bullets flying and gunshots going off will make people do strange things. Officer Heath Layman: It does. Under stress, we do some very bizarre things. Producer: Want to learn more about how officers may use tactical equipment in the field? Join us for the next episode of the MAGTAC podcast with Lou Desmond and Officer Heath Layman.
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Episode 26: Tactical Gear & Procedures, Ft. Officer Heath Layman (Part 1)
What’s it like policing where sometimes it’s the Elk that are the real problem? Officer Heath Layman the proprietor of Willapa Firearms Training talks about his life as a rural lawman and his expertise in use of firearms and use of force training. Transcript: Producer: Welcome to the MAGTAC Podcast with your host, Lou Desmond. Let's join Lou and business owner/police officer Heath Layman, as they discuss the latest in tactical gear and procedures. Lou Desmond: We're joined here today by Officer Heath Layman. He is also the proprietor of Willapa Firearms Training. Did I say that right? Heath Layman: Willapa Firearms Training. Lou Desmond: Willapa. I was putting in the emphasis on the wrong syllable, so that's what happens. Willapa. Firearms Training. I'm still getting used to the names of everything here in Washington State. As you know, I'm a newer resident. A lot of the names, people laugh at me because a lot of the Native American named things, I still get wrong. It's kind of funny. Talk to us about the area where you are a law enforcement officer. It's a mix of urban and rural, right? Heath Layman: That depends on your definition of urban. Small communities, but what I think is a big town for most people that live in real big towns, they would laugh and think that it was the suburbs. City of Aberdeen. It's not that big, but to me, that's going to town. I live in a small community. The City of Raymond. Neighborhood of 5,000 people. It's a very rural area outside of the city. Lots of small businesses. Growing up as a kid, Dairy Queen was the big deal in town. Now it's a small town. Small town vibes, and I live outside of town. Get to enjoy a herd of elk down below my house just about every evening and early morning. That's a good life, far as I'm concerned. Lou Desmond: As far as the type of policing that you do, what's a typical day like? Heath Layman: Lately it's been domestic violence calls and mental health calls, is pretty much been in the forefront of everything. We've had some disorderly conducts. Just about everything lately seems like it involves mental health. I don't know if it's just this Corona stuff that we've been dealing with that's causing people that are a little bit cracked to become broken, but it's definitely been the predominant amount of calls for service that we in our small community have had. Lou Desmond: A lot of people's cracking under the strain of the, basically what is amounted to house arrest for a lot of people. It is causing people a little bit of mental stress. Heath Layman: Absolutely. Like I said, people that were just a little fractured, that were getting by with their group things that they would go and participate in, take their medications, seeing their doctors and stuff like that, a lot of them are self-medicating and not taking the medications as prescribed. Not getting their social interaction that helps them stay balanced and next thing you know, we're getting calls for service and having to go deal with them. Some of them lately have been pretty bizarre and ugly. Where we don't normally- Lou Desmond: An unfortunate side effect of the self-quarantine. Heath Layman: We're very much a small town. Normally, we would have one or two or three at the most in a couple of weeks' timeframe of mental health holds. I had three or four in one day, last week. That's a lot for us, because we have one officer on duty at a time. We're a small town. Lou Desmond: Before Coronavirus, describe your typical life as a police officer in that. It's decidedly a more rural area than say, Southern California. Heath Layman: Definitely more rural than Southern California. We get the exact same calls for service that the big cities get. We just get them in a smaller percentage. Instead of having nine or ten guys show up on scene to handle a call for service, I've got me, myself and I to handle the call for service. We're pretty lucky. The city that I work for, we border a slightly larger community where they have normally, four to five guys on duty at a time in their small town. If the crap hits the fan for us, without a doubt, they're sending guys over to help us. Lou Desmond: When I called you the other day, you were literally just wrapping up breaking up some sort of, I think it was a bar fight or something. Is that what was going on? Heath Layman: Geez. Almost 28 years in, I can't even remember the call for sure. I know that sounds bizarre, but unless it's something that, somebody's wiping bodily fecal matter all over themselves type of a call for service, most of it just blends together. You don't even remember stuff. I don't remember which call that was. I'm sorry. Lou Desmond: That's all right. Well, we've got a sense of the type of area where you work, the types of service calls that you get. I want to get into the difference between nighttime and daytime work. Producer: Want to learn more about how officers may use tactical equipment in the field? Join us for the next episode of the MAGTAC Podcast with Lou Desmond and Officer Heath Layman.
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Episode 25: Chief Thomas Mills - Maglite HERO SERIES - PART 5
Welcome to the MAGTAC Hero Series with your host Lou Desmond. Join Lou as he talks with honored Hero Chief Thomas Mills of the North Beach Maine Volunteer Fire Department. Let's join Lou and Chief Mills to hear the uplifting story of this special honor and the event itself. Lou Desmond: Shifting gears, I want to go to Thursday night of last week. I was in the North Beach Volunteer Fire Department. By the way, a beautiful building with lots of great looking equipment. I had been there for a couple of days in Chesapeake Beach, Maryland representing Maglite, giving out this National Fallen Firefighters Foundation and Maglite Firefighter Hero Award. Lou Desmond: What was it like for you when you first found out you were going to get the award, and how did you find out? Thomas Mills: Well, the one gentleman that I think wrote this article, and the gentleman to my right had a secret plan to keep it from me and get me here for a drill. So two days prior, I got a phone call, and I ignored it because I was working. Then I got like 10 or 11 text messages that said, "Congratulations." I was like, "What?" I was thinking, "Oh maybe I got fired." So got a text message from my mom that said, "Congratulations." And I'll text her back. I said, "For what?" And she sent me the article that Southern Maryland Beacon newspaper or something had released a article when they weren't supposed to release it until Friday, the day after. That was on Tuesday. Thomas Mills: Just very humbled. I mean, I'm not in it for awards, I'm in it for the community. I love helping people, the people here at the station. I care about them a lot. I'm not saying my way is the right way, but I like to be able to give them some influence on doing things throughout my career. I've been in the fire department 30 some years, and I've seen a lot of stuff. I haven't seen it all, but I've seen a lot. I've seen things go south quick and I see things turn out great. Just through the years of experience and mistakes that I've made, I try to do the right thing. Thomas Mills: The award itself, it was super awesome, especially Victor Stagnaro that was from Fallen Firefighters. I hadn't seen Victor in about 15 years. It was good to see him. It was very nice to meet you. The stories that you told us about Maglite itself were inspiring, I mean, people need to really think about what we have here in this country. It's a beautiful thing. Lou Desmond: Oh, so you're referencing what I told everybody about Tony Maglica and why he gives out the award and why it's important to him and how it's really important to the company to honor first responders. And how Tony had such a rough early life as a American-born citizen, but then a refugee from war-torn Croatia, coming here, building a company from nothing, and how he says this is the only country in the world where he could have done that, because other systems just don't allow it. Lou Desmond: I am humbled like you were humbled to get the award. I am humbled to work for such a great man, for such a great brand, for such a great American company, and I am blessed to travel around the country and give these awards out. Lou Desmond: How do you feel about the fact that your name will be forever inscribed on a brick at the Walk of Honor at the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation? Thomas Mills: Words can't describe it. It's pretty awesome to think that somebody would take the time to do that for me. I appreciate it. The gentleman that submitted the nomination is stand-up individual. He is one of the hardest working guys at the fire department here. He gives 110% of what he can give. Lou Desmond: Now, your mom and dad knew about the award before you did and they flew up. Your whole family was there. There was a lot of emotion there, Chief. It was really great to watch. How proud is your family of you? Thomas Mills: Oh, they're still talking about it. It's kind of nice. My father is a retired career fireman from Prince George's County. He's always taught me, "You're here to help people that can't help theirselves in times of need." He instilled that in us when I was young. It's the way we grew up. We always were to help people that couldn't help theirselves. Thomas Mills: It was just emotional to see him and my mom. I hadn't seen him for three months. I talk to him every other day, as quite as often as I can. But to be surprised like that, it was pretty good. My father had told me he woke up like 4:30 in the morning from the day before, and he couldn't sleep. He told my mom about 8:00 in the morning. He said, "Get up, get out of bed." He said, "We're driving to Maryland." So she said, "Well, what?" He said, "We're going to go up." So they drove all the way up just for that, and they turned around and drove back the next day. Lou Desmond: Well, thank you for your service. Thank you for Stephen Stanton's service. Thank you for the gentleman next to you, John Tippett's service. Thank you for your dad's service. Thank you for all the guys and gals that are part of these volunteer fire departments around the country. Chief Thomas Mills, we are so glad to salute you from Maglite, from the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation. You are certainly a very deserving person to get this award as a firefighter hero, and we just want to say thank you very much. Thomas Mills: I thank you very much. It was very humbling, and I appreciate it. Producer: Thank you for joining us for the first ever MAGTAC Hero Series. Join Lou for more incredible stories of heroism and triumphs coming soon, along with future episodes of the MAGTAC Podcast.
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Episode 24: Chief Thomas Mills - Maglite HERO SERIES - PART 4
Welcome to the MAGTAC Hero Series with your host Lou Desmond. Join Lou as he talks with honored hero, chief Thomas Mills of the North Beach Maine Volunteer Fire Department. Lou Desmond: Yes, you handled the incident but it was what you did in the aftermath of the incident, that you really got the award for. Can you explain what you did after this happened? Producer: You've heard the heroic story, now let's hear the real reason behind this special honor for Chief Thomas Mills. Chief Thomas M.: So I guess it was pretty fresh within a couple of days. John, that's sitting here with me. I went to John- Lou Desmond: And that is John Tippet. Chief Thomas M.: Yes sir. John Tippet. I know in the back of my mind the right thing to do, what to go about to do, but to have somebody like John around, that's done it far more than I could ever imagine. He's been the chief of a department before. He's been a battalion chief and I went to him and sat down with him and we came up with a game plan with the after action report to see where we did well, where we could improve and what we needed to get out to everybody else to know what to look for and to share our story so people, if they ran into the same issues with the building construction that we had and the situation we'd come across, maybe they could learn something from it too. Lou Desmond: So that people could learn from the incident that you went through and avoid the civilian casualties and also the potential death and injuries to your volunteer firefighters. We're to bring in here now John Tippet for the following questions, who has been sending dutifully there, side to side of Chief Thomas Mills with the North Beach Volunteer Fire Department, who by the way, got a national fallen firefighters and Maglite award as the firefighter hero. Lou Desmond: And I was there to give him that award on behalf of Maglite and Tony Maglica and family and is so proud to do it. More deserving people, I could not imagine than volunteers that fight fires in their communities and risk their lives. John Tippet, what were the lessons learned from this incident that had to be presented and made sure that people understood and that you could then make people learn from and make something valuable come out of this? John Tippet: First of all, Lou, several of the important lessons that came out of that fire were that the firefighter that was pulled from the building, Safety Officer Morrison had all of his protective clothing on properly and that is a contributing factor to his injuries being limited to what the potential was. He also made note of the fact that he had his waist strap buckled on his SCBA, which allowed the firefighters on the exterior of the building to grab his straps and pull him out of the building. John Tippet: If he had not had his waist strap buckled and they grabbed his SCBA, they would have pulled the SCBA off and he still would've been trapped in the building and likely killed. Some of the other elements that came into play, the automatic aid agreement that Calvert County operates under, along with our partners and Anna Arundel and Prince George's County provides for a seamless response of multiple units to the call. John Tippet: So when that structure fire was dispatched, it was a four to five engines, two ladder trucks, a heavy rescue squad and an ambulance. And all of those units, along with the command officers, come to the scene regardless of their geographical boundaries. And then they all operate under one standard operating procedure. So as Chief Mills mentioned, the incident commander was from another department because Chief Mills was driving the engine that day. John Tippet: So we wanted to promote the fact that cooperative operations are essential. Incidents like this, this was a sprinklered structure, but due to the construction and the way the fire spread and the wind, it overpowered the sprinkler system. The fact that the firefighters were wearing their protective clothing properly, and also just bring to light that this was an extremely challenging event. John Tippet: It was in some cases, a once in a lifetime or once in a career fire. So it is a tenant of the National Fallen Firefighters Foundation to share lessons learned so that no firefighter can go into any situation without the opportunity to be educated about it in advance. And this turned out to be one of those events and to Chief Mills' credit, he was very candid and open, and not only did we share the information in North Beach, we went to the neighboring departments and did presentations with them as well. Lou Desmond: It's really great to share information about what you did right, but it's even more important, I've learned, to share information about what you did wrong and I have learned more from my mistakes in my life, than I have learned from my triumphs. I think it's true for most people, but it's very hard to admit things that didn't go the way that you wanted or could have gone bad if things hadn't gone your way. Lou Desmond: So to be willing to do that, Chief Mills to stand up and say, here's what we did, could've gone right, could've gone wrong. We did our best, but we're willing to open up and say, look at us. Take a clear look at this and this incident. We're not going to sugarcoat anything. We're not going to hide anything because we want people to learn from this. That's a certain type of courage too, and we commend you for that. Chief Thomas M.: Thank you very much. Producer: Next time, on the MAGTAC Hero Series, we wrap up with the heartwarming story of the honor and the event itself, on the final episode of the MAGTAC Hero Series with Chief Thomas Mills.
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